Xentor
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Forceful Pacifist
Posts: 391
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Post by Xentor on Oct 13, 2014 15:32:51 GMT -11
If you ever feel like people refuse to listen, talk over you, undermine you constantly, never treat you with any respect, then who is it that needs to step up and start the change? You, that's who. Problem is, we don't always want to. Because we fear consequences: - physical / sexual abuse of ourselves or our children; - being left alone; - getting thrown out of the house; - having your children taken away; - having your family alienated; - losing your job; - and more. Yet it is you who defines how you want to be treated. It is you who sets the boundaries. It is you who needs to defend those boundaries. And sometimes yes, that means getting into a fight. Be prepared. And yes, sometimes that means you will have to move. Be prepared. And yes, sometimes that means facing and overcoming your fears. Which, agreed, is scary. But you keep your goal in sight, and your head high, and you strive towards becoming a better you, and shaping a better future for yourself and the ones you love. Understand that not everyone has your best interest at heart. Understand that some people will never change, no matter what you try. Understand that the only one who can set and enforce your limits is YOU.
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Graphite
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The Big Bad
Trimming fat
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Post by Graphite on Oct 14, 2014 15:45:36 GMT -11
While technically true there are a lot of people who don't have the resources to take such drastic measures, and quite frankly I don't ever think it is right to blame the person being abused in a situation. The blame falls on the one abusing.
For an example; we may lack a social network enough to stand up to people. In the event of loss of job, loss of social security or loss of a place to stay the only option may be living on the street. Not every place have shelters. Not everyone live close enough to family to take advantage of such things.
There are also people who may be unable to do certain things due to mental health issues, and that is not their fault either. And risking everything while exasperating conditions is not a good advice.
I am all for standing up for yourself, but sometimes standing up for yourself at the wrong time, in the wrong place with the wrong people can have too great of a consequece and can lead to your situation becoming a HELL of a lot worse.
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Draco
Theme Mods
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Post by Draco on Oct 15, 2014 4:27:26 GMT -11
Abusers do what they do it because they can get away with it. They may not be doing it for the sake of just doing it, but they go through with it because they think they can without consequence. If someone treats you like shit, it may not be your fault but it has very much become your problem. If your adamant and they just don't care, maybe it's time to cut them out of your life.
It becomes systematic, and enabling people to feel like they can say no is work worth doing. We're all better off the more people are able to follow their own path without fear of being manipulated.
At the same time, if you aren't aware of how your being manipulated and make course corrections your going to be manipulated by people who aren't consciously trying to manipulate. If you aren't aware of the behavioral modification put on you, you are being manipulated.
Make no mistake, either that manipulation runs deep and it must be understood that it gets you to the point where you are psychologically unable to recognize what power you do have to change the situation. Your sense of inherent dignity is worn down to the point of having a pathology that you are, by nature, "helpless". For people in this psychosis it is not simply a matter of choosing a different path. The possibility of path-working no-longer registers for them. They need to be shown the possibility, through gnosis.
There are two extremes we really don't want to fall in:
a) The extreme of thinking there is no communal responsibility here, that you aren't affected when others enable an abuser. It is a systematic illness, a recurring pattern.
b) Being so afraid of victim blaming that we don't suggest a cognitive evaluation of ones actions. Most people don't know why they do what they do, no point in punishing them for it but if they're never told to figure out that process they wont correct themselves when they are in error. Now it may be they aren't in error, yet don't take the steps needed to address the situation. Unless inaction is needed, that is in error.
There's nothing wrong with saying you don't have the means if that's you being honest with yourself, not an excuse.
I very much recognize the importance of communal power, a collective of personal power. That bit that goes:
A young man tried to move a boulder but try as he might could not. An older man said, "what's the matter?: The younger man said "try as I might, I can not move it" The elder said, "Did you try with all your might?" The younger said "yes" The elder man said, "did you ask me to help?" The junior said "no" To which the senior replied "then you did not use all your might"/
It's not about what you have or what you own, but getting it done. Obviously there are going to be options which aren't feasible but if you never look beyond your current means how do you ever expect to go beyond them? That's just the hard reality of it.
Now the role of the senor in this bit is where our communal responsibility comes in. It is hypocritical to say "ask for help", or "there are way" if you aren't going to live for that better way. Even if we are to argue that a person has everything they need, sometimes they need a sponsor.
We can talk about being poor, I get it, I can talk about being poor but if your poor the worst thing you can do is worry about it. Don't be deluded about the cards dealt but don't let it consume you. You might have to make more sacrifices than others, even if you shouldn't have to. All the same, if you aren't looking to meet tour needs why even try at life? Yes you have to choose your battles but that's not the same as not fighting. First rule of survival- you don't keep going, you die. The same can be said of your soul. If your view of the world isn't innocent, if you know better, you need that. If you don't have the right to choose to keep going or not then what rights do you really have? If your going to live instead of merely exist, you have to decree your life. Why should anyone recognize your rights if you aren't willing to fight for them?
Pacifism has it's virtues but you simply can not afford to always be a pacifist. You have a waking self to take care of.
Yes if someone did me wrong and I was blamed for their crime I'd be pissed. You should be pissed when that happens to you. You have every right to be. There is no excuse on behalf of the abuser and if you were to kill them where they stand I would not blame you. However, if I find myself being abused, if I do not contemplate what makes me easy prey, than I am doing myself a great disservice.
Theres nothing wrong with being bold. Express yourself as you will, but know while you shouldn't have to put up with anther's inability to get their shit together, to go out into this world not knowing how to defend yourself is a grave mistake. Right or wrong there are always consequences for truly being you. I however, can not think of anything more worthwhile.
Fear is a necessary survival mechanism, but you can't live in fear.
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Xentor
Moderators
Forceful Pacifist
Posts: 391
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Post by Xentor on Oct 26, 2014 15:10:35 GMT -11
Graphite: I see your point about abuse. Yes, the abuser is to blame for their abuse. But it is the victim who continues to be the victim, for whatever reason. Can we force the victim out of the situation? No. They must choose to get out themselves. Sometimes we can help by offering them a place to stay, a listening ear, a shoulder to cry on, and some motivation. But in the end, if they choose to go back, no matter how valid the reason, there's little we can do. We can do something about the abuser. We can call the police. We can call social services. We can drum up a posse and serve some mob justice. Will any of that help the victim?
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